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Ron Johnson: “The national debt will be more like $62, $63 trillion [by…”

Featuring: Ron Johnson, Republican | U.S. Senate, Wisconsin

Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview

Published May 25, 2025 | Video Starts at 09:04

So again, we may not get that $4 trillion. But no matter what the CBO projection right now, that is adding another $22 trillion to our debt, it certainly would add at least that, … The national debt will be more like $62, $63 trillion [by 2035]. … the interest rate on the federal debt, I believe is an average of 3.6%. And now we're seeing the 30 year trading above 5%, meaning that if we trade up … (09:04–09:07)

CLAIM

Asserts that the national debt will be more like $62, $63 trillion by 2035.

This is an excerpt from a raw transcript. The assertions have not been audited or verified. Tap the video to view the source footage and understand the context.

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Ron Johnson

“Our average interest rate over the last 50 years on government debt is about 5.8%.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 15:20-15:26
“A dollar you held in 1998 is worth 51 cents.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 21:13-21:16
“We spent something like 5 or 6 trillion dollars globally on climate change... we haven't bent the needle.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 27:28-27:35
“In 1930, the federal government spent about 3.5% of our GDP.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 43:17-43:30
“Now we're spending close to 24% [of GDP] at the federal level.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 43:38-43:42
“Budget reconciliation was set up by the Budget Act [of 1974].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 03:34-03:40
“Other mandatory [spending] hit well over $2 trillion [during COVID].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 04:43-04:45
“Other mandatory [spending] went from $642 billion in 2019 to last year 1.3 [trillion].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 04:43-04:45
“Last fiscal year [other mandatory spending] was about $1.3 trillion.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 04:51-04:55
“This year [other mandatory spending] will be over $1 trillion.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 04:54-05:09
“We don't have a balanced budget requirement like states do.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 05:56-06:00
“We have the capability of printing money, which we're doing, incurring this enormous debt.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 06:01-06:06
“The appropriation committees were literally set up because the authorized committees were big spenders.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 06:10-06:17
“Simpson Bowles didn't work.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 06:22-06:25
“The Budget Control Act didn't work.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 06:24-06:27
“The federal budget was $4,400 billion six years ago.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 07:29-07:40
“The CBO projects a 10-year deficit of $22 trillion, averaging $2.2 trillion a year.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 07:46-07:58
“The CBO projection adds another $22 trillion to our debt.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 08:52-09:04
“Federal spending on education, welfare, food stamps, veterans benefits has been transferred into mandatory spending.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 10:13-10:17
“We are operating for this fiscal year under a continuing resolution.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 11:09-11:14
“Discretionary spending is about 25% of our budget; 75% is in mandatory accounts.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 11:23-11:29
“I exempted Social Security, Medicare and interest. You know, spend what you need to spend.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 14:12-14:17
“We don't have a balanced budget amendment.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 14:25-14:28
“We're down here about 3, somewhere around 3% [interest rate on government debt].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 15:27-15:31
“The number one component of a solution to our enormous debt and deficit problem is economic growth.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 15:38-15:45
“When the government is sucking out of the private sector, we're the ones borrowing the money.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 15:48-15:56
“If you start scrutinizing [spending] line by line, there would literally be hundreds of billions of dollars that the public wouldn't even…”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 18:07-18:17
“There's no public pressure not to spend.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 19:41-19:44
“We've never, as I said, there's never been a process to actually control spending.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 20:27-20:32
“We did not simplify the tax code in 2017.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 23:43-23:46
“Carried interest... is ordinary income.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 24:06-24:15
“It's insane that we've been shutting down coal fired electrical generation.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 25:26-25:31
“Congress was oblivious and ignorant of all this waste, fraud, and abuse.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 28:56-29:09
“The last time I looked at Doge's website, they were up to 165 things higher than that.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 29:55-29:59
“President Trump in his first administration sent up a $15 billion rescission package.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 31:03-31:12
“Any Republican that voted would vote against the rescission package ought to pay a pretty huge political price.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 31:15-31:20
“The first goal of this Republican budget reconciliation should be don't add to the deficit.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 34:22-34:29
“Return to a reasonable pre-pandemic level spending.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 34:31-34:41
“The hard number accepted by and expected by a lot of senators...is $6.5 trillion of spending in 2026.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 34:50-35:01
“We're expected to spend about 7.3 trillion next year.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 35:05-35:09
“That implies about $8 trillion in deficit reduction rather than 1.5 trillion that the House has in their meager House reconciliation bill.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 35:09-35:21
“We went from 4.4 to it'll be 7.3 next year.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 35:59-36:04
“Our debt to GDP ratio is probably not the most relevant, is relevant for inflation, that type of thing.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 37:46-37:52
“I'm not concerned about America going bankrupt because we have this vast wealth.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 38:22-38:28
“Their relentlessness of letting all these undocumented people in this country who are voting.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 39:33-39:40
“I think they do cheat in voting.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 39:46-39:48
“The Liberal candidate got 78% of Kamala Harris's vote. The Conservative candidate got 62% of Donald Trump's vote.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 40:03-40:13
“States are probably somewhere 12 to 15 [percent of GDP].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 43:41-43:44
“I first focus on spending. Okay, 89.3 trillion.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 47:42-47:47
“The unprecedented, other than World War II, increase in spending from 2019 of 58 to 60%.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 47:52-48:03
“In my column, I pointed out our forefathers...entered World War II spending about 11.7%, ramped it up to 41% during the war.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 48:02-48:14
“By 1948, they were down to 11.4% [of GDP].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 48:13-48:17
“Biden's up to almost $1.9 trillion average deficit.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 48:42-48:44
“Obama, he averaged about $900 billion a year deficit.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 49:35-49:39
“Trump before the pandemic was about 800 billion [deficit].”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 49:38-49:42
“We also have to focus on economic growth through the private sector that's fueled by government deficit spending.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 51:21-51:28
“It is true that we beat the CBO estimates, but that's because of trillions of dollars of deficit spending starting the pandemic years…”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 51:47-51:58
“Prior to the pandemic, we weren't, we really weren't matching even the CBO's, you know, downgrade of revenue coming in after the TCGA.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 51:57-52:06
“We go from 17.1 to 18% of GDP in terms of revenue.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 52:30-52:35
“When we have the majority in 2027, then, then we're going to actually spend the, you know, turn the spending curve down.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 53:34-53:41
“We may lose the House, we may lose the Senate, but I would say we do that because we're not solving these problems.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 53:56-54:01
“It's developing a process that will achieve, maintain a pre pandemic level spending, you know, just a lower spending level.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 54:40-54:48
“OMB said we don't have enough time.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 56:16-56:19
“Senate leadership's the only one that's been fully behind what I'm trying to do here.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 56:27-56:31
“It's getting the commitment of the president that he is determined to not keep funding the deep state at buying levels.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 56:34-56:50
“I'd rather return to my private sector life than keep serving here in this total dysfunction.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 57:36-57:43
“I can't be pressured by President Trump.”
Senator Ron Johnson on the Senate showdown over Trump's Big Beautiful Bill | All-In Interview | Uploaded May 25, 2025 | 57:46-57:49